Inside Meow Wolf LA: Wayne White on Puppets, Paintings & Showbiz

Interview transcribed by Rivka Yeker

As opening day at Meow Wolf Los Angeles gets closer, the lineup of collaborating artists continues to take shape in beautifully unexpected ways. We sat down with Wayne White: artist, puppeteer, set designer, and the creative force behind some of the most iconic visuals in children’s television. Discover how decades of puppets, paintings, and showbiz are coming to life inside the walls of Meow Wolf LA. 

AJ: I just wanna jump in…You’ve worked in everything from television to fine art to large-scale installations. What have those different worlds taught you about how people experience art?

Wayne: You know, I find most people don’t really want to do a lot of hard work, or be challenged by artwork. They say they do, and that’s the common kind of virtuous claim that people have. But really, only some really serious artists and serious art critics come to an art experience wanting to be challenged and do a lot of mental work. I think most people really just want to find something they can relate to. And they want the artist to meet them at least halfway.

That’s sort of the way I was trained from all my years in showbiz: to communicate with people, to entertain people. So I tend to have a much looked-down-upon attitude in the art world, in the sense that I want to meet people halfway and I want to entertain them. That’s really one of my goals: to be welcoming, communicative, and show people a good time.

AJ: I relate to that answer a lot. Do you think it has anything to do with the world we’re in just being so busy? I mean, it’s always been busy, but maybe people just want a breather when they come to see art?

Wayne: Yeah, that’s a good way of putting it. I wanna give people a breather, man. I really respect people who are deeply intellectual and want to be challenged by art and are ready to do the hard work. But that’s just not me. I’m not an intellectual. I am an artist. Artists aren’t intellectuals, although a lot of people would argue that. I always say artists are nerve endings.

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AJ: Wow. That’s dope. I love that. I’m already resonating with your energy off the top. Thinking about Meow Wolf specifically, when people step into this space, what do you feel like they hope to feel first?

Wayne: Joy. I want them to feel joy, and I want them to feel the giddy anticipation of even more joy.

AJ: What did the earliest version of your space look like in your head? And how has that idea changed or evolved?

Wayne: Well, when they told me the theme of this Meow Wolf – which is gonna be movies and entertainment, because of course it’s LA – I immediately thought about my experience in the LA entertainment industry doing children’s television and kids shows. The most famous one being Pee-wee’s Playhouse. Everything kind of springs from that for me, as far as showbiz goes. 

So I imagined a kids’ show set, only with a weird edge to it. I immediately went back to my set-building days and thought: how could I use the vocabulary of those children’s show sets to make my own specifically weird version of that? I had my initial idea and I did a little model of it and some drawings, but those were just for the pitch. Now that I’m actually building a bigger full-scale model of it, I’m still going through the process of what it wants to be. I’m still listening to it talk back to me.

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AJ: I love that answer. What is your studio like? Do you like to be full of inspiration, or do you stay closed off in your own world?

Wayne: I have a very tiny workspace. It’s my downstairs studio in the basement of my house. A lot of people have seen it from my documentary Beauty Is Embarrassing. It’s kind of half studio, half library. I make paintings and drawings there. 

Then I have a big backyard where I set up these big shade tents and build bigger stuff. That’s where the sculptures get built. So I have the luxury of a nice outdoor studio out back, but that’s strictly for 3D stuff.

AJ: I love your energy, Wayne. I really do. It’s something about the Southern drawl – it just feels warm and familiar. Thinking about your connection to LA, how does this city feed you artistically?

Wayne: I’ve been here since 1990, working mostly in show business from 1990 to 2001, and that’s a tough game to play. So I have the badge of honor of surviving that and thriving in it, buying a house, raising two kids. It introduces you to all kinds of incredibly interesting, fascinating people you’re never gonna find anywhere else.

And let’s face it, it’s a center for American culture. I like to be where the action is. I like to think I’m surrounded by people who are better than I am. That’s been my philosophy ever since I left Tennessee. I wanted to go somewhere where there were lots of people better than me so I could learn from them. 

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AJ: Could you share a little bit about your roots? Your Appalachian culture and music influences, or really any creative roots you wanna talk about.

Wayne: I was born and raised in Chattanooga, Tennessee. I went to Middle Tennessee State University as a painting major. After graduation I lived in Nashville for about a year, back in 1981 when Nashville was not like it is now. There was no art scene there at all. It was an art desert. 

I was young and unattached, so after a year in Nashville I moved to New York in 1981, and that’s where I got my start. One of my biggest influences was an artist named Red Grooms from Nashville. His work is very cartoon-expressionistic, very fun, very communicative. He did these giant walk-through installations. 

When I first moved to New York, I became an illustrator and cartoonist because I wanted to make a living. Then I met Red and got to work for him as his studio assistant. That was the turning point in my life as an artist. It gave me confidence. He validated me in every way. He proved that Southerners had a place in the culture, not by performing “Southernness,” but just by being themselves and letting it naturally come out. 

I was also in rebellion against my conservative racist upbringing. I wanted to experience another culture. I wanted to be around people who were better than me so I could learn from them. That’s the best way to learn: humble yourself around people better than you. You’re either gonna get better or you’re gonna be crushed. And honestly, it’s better to be crushed than to spend your life in some small town wondering, “What if?”

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AJ: I love that advice. I’m from Texas, and I remember wondering whether moving to California or New York was worth it. Like you said, those cities become your badge of honor. I’ve been trying to get to that place with LA where I’m like: Meow Wolf is coming to town, this is gonna be a different voice, something new added to the culture. So how did you get from all that to Pee-wee?

Wayne: In college I started doing puppet shows for fun wherever people gathered. I had this really liberal art history professor, and he let me perform a puppet show at a house party. It was called Punk and Juicy, back during punk rock. So I started calling my stuff punk rock puppet shows. They were wild, chaotic mayhem, influenced by Mr. Bill on Saturday Night Live, Andy Kaufman, anti-showbiz energy.

There were firecrackers, cherry bombs, fake vomit, just chaos. And people loved it. The puppet shows brought together everything I loved: drawing, painting, sculpting, performance, music.

I carried that with me to New York. Whenever I got depressed or wanted attention, I’d throw a puppet show at a house party and videotape it. Then a friend back in Tennessee who worked at a public television station told me they needed someone to make a 15-minute kids music show for first graders. In 1985 I built this whole show called Mrs. Kabobble’s Caboose. Then I took that portfolio back to New York in 1986 and heard that Pee-wee Herman was doing a kids show on CBS. I brought my Mrs. Kabobble’s Caboose portfolio to Broadcast Arts, and they hired me the same day. And my life changed forever.

AJ: What’s cool listening to you is that you really put yourself where you wanted to be. Sometimes if people don’t see something, they don’t think it can happen. I love that you just kept creating and creating and creating. Meow Wolf honestly feels like the perfect next stage because you’ve already been doing this your whole life. I actually think I was most nervous for this interview because I respect what you’re doing so much. I do have one question about merchandise. How did the space you’re building for Meow Wolf shape the T-shirt designs and merch?

Wayne: Merch has always been part of my thing. I’ve done puzzles, refrigerator magnets, T-shirts, little desktop displays. I have a contract right now with a company called Genuine Fred that merchandises a lot of my stuff. 

I don’t overthink it. I just appreciate a good creative team helping design the merchandise, and Meow Wolf certainly has that. I just finalized a T-shirt design based on one of the puppet characters in my installation, and I’m really excited about that. Most of my merch has been based on my paintings and word paintings, so it’s fun getting the characters out there too.

Check out Wayne White’s installation at Meow Wolf Los Angeles later this year and you can follow his artistic journey on Instagram. You can also buy the limited edition t-shirt on our online shop, based on “Brave Ron”, one of the puppets from his space in Meow Wolf’s newest exhibition. For more updates and announcements, subscribe to our emails.